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 New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   05-31-07 02:43

Hello from France
A new live album "Live in America" is pre-order at Play.com...
Here is the link : http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/3363260/Live-In-America/Product.html
I suppose it's a unauthorized live album...
Anybody can confirm ?

On another thread, is there a chance for remastering the 3 official UK albums with live bonus tracks ?
Nearly all the groups of the old EG Records have remastered their back-catalogue in new labels (like Bruford with Voiceprint, Crimson & Fripp through Discipline, Penguin cafe Orchestra through Virgin, etc...) but what of UK ?

Thanks for answer

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   05-31-07 08:46

A shameless boot... definitely; a compilation of UK & JW material, and most likely the UK material was released on other boots before already. Who wants to pay for boots when you can download them for free and who wants to send his credit card data to a 'company' like that?

But good post Octopus!





Post Edited (05-31-07 08:51)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-13-07 12:50

Hourray !

Virgin Records will reissue the 3 UK albums with remastered sound and bonus tracks.
The CD are on pre-order for a release date of 17th September

Bonus tracks are :

U.K.
- Alaska (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- Time to Kill (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- Carrying No Cross (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- In the Dead of Night (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- Mental Medication (single edit) (B-side of “In the Dead of Night” single)

DANGER MONEY
-The Only Thing She Needs (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- Caeser’s Palace Blues (Live at the Paradise Theatre, Boston MA 11th July 1978)
- In the Dead of Night (Remade single version) (B-side of “Nothing to Lose” single)
- When Will You Realize (B-side of “Night After Night” single)
- Rendezvous 6:02 (single edit)

NIGHT AFTER NIGHT
- Danger Money
- Thirty Years
- John Wetton solo
- Eddie Jobson Electric Violin solo
- In the Dead of Night
All Recorded at the Congressgebouwe, The Hague, Holland 16th December 1979

I'm in heaven but the wait will be long !

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-13-07 12:57

Great, but I bet these are bootlegs too, even if Virgin releases them. Please anyone convince me that they are not.





Post Edited (07-13-07 12:59)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Yasu 
Date:   07-13-07 15:30

Hi,dear Octopus,long time no see.
This may become great news. BTW,how did you get the information? I would like Virgin to add Forever Until Sunday ,The Sahara Of Snow by 4-piece-UK,andThe only Thng She Needs, Carrying No Cross by 3-piece-UK. I didn't know Mental Medication (single edit).
I wish the news were true!



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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-13-07 23:51

Several sellers mentionned them.

CDUniverse said they will be available at the end of July, for example...
HMV Japon gives the list of bonus tracks with the appropriate September date release and I know, by experience, their informations are the best !

For Killmymusic, it's not that important the live bonus tracks are from bootlegs ; it's something more than the usual track-list and the good use of the CD time abilities.

On the recent Steve Hackett re-issues, the live bous tracks were very good from a sound perspective

The best thing is we'll be able to hear some details that were hidden on the original studio CD.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-14-07 00:40

I would love it to be true, but I can't believe they're official releases. We'll see.





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: none too soon 
Date:   07-14-07 08:31

Looks like apart from Thirty Years the complete tracklisting from the bootlegs In The Dead Of Night/Concert Classics is being used. And why did they put tracks from the four-piece concert on Danger Money? Doesn't make any sense to me. The only trigger would be Mental Medication. Didn't know When Will You Realize was played by UK b.t.w. I only know it from John Wetton's Caught In The Crossfire.

But thanks for the info. Will keep an eye on this.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Yasu 
Date:   07-16-07 20:41

GREAT! The information turned out to be true! My elder brother found the information on HMV Japan.
http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/2593249
Thanks Octopuses, My brother's nick name used to be Octopus.



Post Edited (07-16-07 20:43)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Yasu 
Date:   07-16-07 20:58

I've just subscribed to the CDs! They will be released in Japan,on 17 Sept.



Post Edited (07-17-07 22:53)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: klaatusuit 
Date:   07-17-07 14:28

Remasterd eh? Well, I would hope so but I'm with KillMyMusic, I think it's another bootleg. As for the bonus tracks, no surprises there. The sources are of pretty good sound quality but the real surprise would be the remastering job. Like the latest Genesis remasters (yes, another one) but this time it was done by Tony Banks himself. I must admit: it really IS an improvement! Sound is very good indeed. Don't think this boxed set hase been released yet...untill September or so.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: EJ 
Date:   07-17-07 17:03

This is the first I have heard about these releases.   The bad news is that I had no involvement in the production and so I am sure of one thing, that there has been no sonic improvement of any significance.   It is also likely that there has been no enhancement to the packaging.

Unfortunately, Milly is right (again), the 'bonus' tracks are taken from the same bootlegs that have been around forever... there are no mobile recordings of UK other than the 'Night After Night' masters and a few radio simulcasts.   It is obvious to me whose fingerprints are all over this.

The other tracks are just edited versions of the original album tracks and one B-side, "When Will You Realize," the track that split up the band (but that's another story for another time).

EJ



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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Yasu 
Date:   07-17-07 18:02

Oh,this release hasn't been told to Eddie.It's terrible.Recording companies shouldn't ignore musicians' intention.While I have an ambivalent feeling.I'm at a loss.



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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-17-07 21:33

These kind of bootlegs are the worst; the ones that make people believe they're legitimate. If you buy a bootleg you should at least know that it's one, you should be able to make a decision on whether you want to buy it or not. It's not only cheating on the artist, but also on the customer. As with so many products; "we don't care where it comes from, as long as we sell it, people don't ask anyway".





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Helen 
Date:   07-18-07 01:34

I thought I would buy it anyway (being a born sucker when it comes to these things), but unfortunately/fortunately the seller doesn't know of the existence of SA. So I was banned from ordering, thank goodness.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 03:36

I forgot; thanks for posting this Octopus, it's good to read what's going on, even though it's not very positive news





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 08:58

>"When Will You Realize," the track that split up the band

Someone must have realized very soon that it was about to end





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-18-07 09:47

I'm very sad that Eddie is not involved in these remastered versions...
There are not any words too on the John Wetton website...
But why do you think it's bootlegs ?

Virgin has the rights on the 3 U.K. albums (since the demise of E.G. Records), so I suppose they can do what they want, even not consider if the musicians themselves are involved in the remastering process !

I know it's business and I'd like so much knowing Eddie has been invited for getting an ear on the result...

And I don't understand Eddie's opinion : how can he be sure there's no sonic improvement as he even wasn't aware about this remastering project ?

Does he own the original masters tapes of U.K records ? If so, I can understand but if not...

Virgin has never made bootlegs, so I don't understand why such fans think they will do it now with U.K. records (I'm not involved in any case with that company)

For your information, Virgin Records has re-edited some of their back catalogue (Steve Hackett, Van Der Graaf Generator, Peter Hamill solo, Steve Hillage and much more to come...) with bonus tracks and remastered sound and I can assure you these are not bootlegs !

The sound is definitively much better ; now that Eddie knows it, I just hope he will have access to the remastered versions before publishing and gives his approbation to them !

I've never bought any bootlegs in my life (didn't know that "Concert classics" was one of them when I've bought it) and if these new edition are "some kind of boots", I will erase my order on the HMV Japan website !

PS : about Genesis, it's definitively not remasting process but remixing from the original master tapes ; totally different and Tony Banks was involved but Nick Davis was the project's master ! The result is fantastic and the sound now is in Surround sound too, not only in stereo !



Post Edited (07-18-07 11:41)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: none too soon 
Date:   07-18-07 10:07

What is meant with the bootlegs is clearly not about the original albums but about the live bonus tracks, that come from a radio-broadcast that has been used as a source for a couple of bootlegs. When a legal publisher like Virgin uses these tracks they don't become official in my opinion. It's a bit like laundering black money.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-18-07 10:20

Virgin are not the only one who did it...
I don't own the Peter Hamill remasters but know some of the bonus tracks are taken from bootlegs...
King Crimson use a lot of bootlegs for their publications : the Epitaph 4 CD Box-Set about the beginning of the band in 1969 has 2 CD taken from the best bootlegs sources and remastered...
As I'm a big fan of Crimso, they recently ask to their fans for some original tapes from Savoy concerts in 1981, so they can remaster them and then publish...
Perhaps, Eddie is against this kind of acts (that I can easily understand...) but, after all, it's only bonus tracks !
Just a good use of time for Compact Disc !

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: gogo 
Date:   07-18-07 10:24

Wild !
love
Gogo

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 10:27

Where did you get the information that Virgin owns the rights?

I'm interested in how the process of releasing material takes place; how many people should give their permission to release copyrighted material?





Post Edited (07-18-07 10:29)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-18-07 10:43

If you look at the copyrights of U.K. albums, they are owned by E.G. Records.
EG doesn't exist anymore, they are out of business and I suppose they sell their catalogue to Virgin (they did the same for other artists from EG, Bruford, King Crimson, Roxy Music, Penguin Cafe Orchestra, Bryan Ferry, etc...)

If you go to some stores, PCO CD have new editions (a very good boxset) with remastered sound and B'Sides, Roxy and Ferry too, nearly all of the EG artists.

Bruford has bought the rights of his albums with EG to Virgin and has published them in the last two years via Voiceprint, one of the best english independant companies with remastered sound and bonus tracks (some of them taken from bootleg sources). I suppose he wasn't a "mainstream" artist, that's why he was able to do it.

Virgin published the back-catalogue of Crimson with remastered sound and bonus tracks at the beginning of this century but, 5 years after (it was the deal), these copyrights are now owned by Fripp who published on his own Discipline label the same CD that Virgin published some years before (some of them has the Virgin product number on it !)

So, I suppose now Virgin have the rights to the U.K. records and can publish them as they want !
If Eddie, John and the others are against, I'm not sure they will be able to do something !

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 10:49

>So, I suppose now Virgin have the rights to the U.K. records

Assumptions are dangerous ;-).





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-18-07 10:59

Only Eddie can confirm or not who owns the rights of U.K. albums.

But, if Virgin doesn't own these rights, I don't understand why Eddie, John or the both don't publish them with new remastered sound and their own choice of "live tracks"...

Just my opinion !

Hope Eddie will clarify all this !

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 11:05

http://www.copyright.gov/records/cohm.html

This says EG still owns the rights, but if EG doesn't exist anymore, then who owns the rights now?

Yes, some clarification would be nice :-).





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 11:15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights

Interesting subject :-))))





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: octopus92 
Date:   07-18-07 11:40

Follow this link (it's the EMI catalogue) : http://www.esounds.com/esounds/EN/SearchResults.aspx?oID=a8e5124b-9e38-41f4-bce9-03dae2889565
The eponymous album is clearly in the hands of EMI (a.k.a. Virgin Records) !



Post Edited (07-18-07 12:18)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: EJ 
Date:   07-18-07 13:40

I'm happy to give some clarification.   Virgin acquired the rights to the three UK albums from E.G. Records.   The question is: what rights do they have vis-à-vis the bootleg live recordings, such as the ubiquitous 'Paradise Theater' CD?   The answer is: probably none.   But that won't stop them.

A certain unnamed former colleague has being attempting for years to follow in Mr. Fripp's footsteps by finding ways to create income from all of the illegal recordings floating around out there.   'Concert Classics Vol.4' was one such attempt.   This is presumably another... this time in cahoots with the British Virgin Records execs.

I contacted Virgin (UK) several years ago to try to have the UK albums re-released with a professional sonic upgrade, high-quality repackaging etc... but the legal department gave me the cold shoulder.   Earlier this year, I contacted EMI (US) with a similar goal; they expressed some mild interest, but dropped the ball and stopped communicating.

It is the style and behaviour of said unnamed person to scrape the bottom of the barrel and try to resell garbage under the guise of some legitimacy.   My position is that it is dishonest and serves only to dilute—not enhance—the integrity and flow of the original albums.

As to the questions about the so-called "remastering"... whenever tracks are added or subtracted from an album, a new 'glass master' needs to be made for manufacturing the CDs.   The preparation for this is done by a mastering engineer who will often 'remaster' the stereo recordings in the process.   This usually means that a very small amount of overall EQ (treble/bass) is applied to the two-track masters—usually not much else.   The effect of this is indiscernible to most listeners.   No remixing takes place.   I am fairly convinced of the unlikelihood that any of the collaborators in this scheme would care enough about quality or the buying audience to spend the time, effort, and money actually improving the product.

Frankly, I am rather tired of fighting this type of thing.   I will have to decide what my options are, and whether or not to pursue them.

Eddie



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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: klaatusuit 
Date:   07-18-07 14:31

So this 'former colleague' tries to make a buck of bootlegs he himself detest so much. Mention the word 'bootleg' on his website and you're out of there.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-18-07 14:41

Web site? Whose web site? And is it a man? Where does it say that it's a man?

Somehow I expected the subject of being-banned-from-one's-web-site to be brought up here again :-))





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: gogo 
Date:   07-18-07 17:45

Wild (again).......

Hey, my big prog-rock/red-neck brother put a cassette into his stereo years ago and recorded what I guess is the 'Paradise Theater' recording. There was a neat radio station in Vancouver BC that played all the neatest stuff that they could find ....and I remember JW says "is this really Paradise ?" over some cs80 string chords. I always thought that was haunting.

The coastal winters were pretty heavy back then, the lakes would freeze, and that tape blasted out of a red crew-cab pick-up truck while a couple dozen or so people skated around at night. Some Danger Money songs that nobody had ever heard were included as well. Bill and Eddie did a piano and snare shot on the first AND of every bar of CARRY NO CROSS, and I remember thinking "wow, that is tight, you wouldn't want to screw THAT up !" These guys are amazing.

These are really beautiful memories of an innocent time.
I feel that that recording had served a great purpose that night.
The magic is still with me, I feel blessed.
.....even though nobody made a buck (well, the radio station), (?)
.....my community had fun with it.

I don't wish to think of Eddie spending his time, spirit and wild talent on chasing the sharks around. Is there not some one else that can do that stuff for him ?

I just want Eddie to have reason smile all the time.
love
gogo

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: dan 
Date:   07-22-07 23:00

It also appears that a rerelease of the "Concert Classics" disc is on its way in August.

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&EAN=630428070424&itm=4

I also see Billboard is reporting "Alive in America" as coming out that same date:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/discography/index.jsp?pid=111559&aid=1057695

Same recording, new cover perhaps? If these are illegals, shame its getting to the mainstream (Billboard, B&N, etc) as those who may not know any better would think these are legit.


Label still indicates Renaissance, but their website has no news of this.

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   07-23-07 03:32

Maybe we should make those albums available for free download then? That seems to be the only way to annoy the one(s) who want to rerelease them.





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Dusty 
Date:   07-23-07 06:58

What a trashy piece of tat this "Concert Classics" release appears to be; what with the slap-dash cover made up of ill-matched individual headshots...

I agree with EJ's contention that such releases only serve to dilute the band's recorded legacy. Unfortunately.

Having never been in the market for bootlegs, I was surprised to see that not only will some large music retailers actually stock these things, but some also make available audio samples of them online - and thus broadcast these unauthorised recordings. Just the sham/shame that is the music industry, I suppose. (Isn't it Bruford that refers to it as "the industry of human happiness"?! What a positively arid wit that man possesses....)



Post Edited (07-23-07 07:01)

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: klaatusuit 
Date:   07-23-07 07:08

> Maybe we should make those albums available for free download then? That seems to be the only way to annoy the one(s) who want to rerelease them. <

Good idea Milly; I'm happy to send anyone any U.K. bootleg in return for blancs (being Dutch ofcourse).

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: chamma 
Date:   08-23-07 01:49

I understand that it can be very frustrating when you aren't in control of your own creative works and so on... but as evidenced by the very existence of this forum, UK was an influential band with amazing musicians and music, a band whose short life left many, many fans wanting more. So, it's not the least bit surprising that all of these fans would be looking for more recorded output from any source. And it is equally unsurprising that one or more former bandmembers would take a pragmatic approach and say, "Why shouldn't we 1) give the fans what they want, and 2) stick it to the bootleggers and make some money off it ourselves?" It's the law of supply and demand. As long as it's not of completely abysmal quality (Concert Classics Vol. 4 sounds fine for what it is), there's nothing wrong with the ex-bandmembers moving forward with such projects. Zappa and Fripp are notable examples of how successful the idea can be. These types of projects may even increase legitimate back catalog sales for the artist by stirring up renewed interest. So I don't see what all the complaining is about.



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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: KillMyMusic 
Date:   08-23-07 02:09

>there's nothing wrong with the ex-bandmembers moving forward with such projects

There is if not all members are involved.

Besides this, I think it's unfair to sell something that is available for free just because you know fans will buy it anyway because of the crappy artwork and because it has the name "official" attached to it, but I guess you're right in saying that the fans obviously want to be cheated.





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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: Lenny 
Date:   08-23-07 08:38

It's a pity there's not many free official bootlegs downloadable. I only know of one band, and it's impressive to see what they have to offer.
http://droptrio.com/Music/live.html

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 Re: New UK bootleg / New editions
Author: none too soon 
Date:   08-31-07 10:35

The remasters won't be out before 2008! This is what Gary Davis from The Artist Shop writes in his latest newsletter: www.artist-shop.com

Before we get into the new and forthcoming releases, I want to address a
couple inquiries that a lot of people have recently sent me, both on the
band U.K. First, in the last newsletter was the following entry for a
forthcoming Japanese mini:

U.K. - LIVE IN BOSTON (JPN LP SLEEVE) $32.95
Japanese limited edition issue in a deluxe, miniaturized LP sleeve.

A lot of people have inquired into what exactly this was as U.K. never had a
release titled "Live in Boston" and their "Night After Night" live album was
recorded in Japan. Some of you may recall, though, that in 1999 there was
another live U.K. album that was put out on the Renaissance label that was
titled "Concert Classics Volume 4." This was a live recording of the
original quartet - Eddie Jobson, John Wetton, Bill Bruford and Allan
Holdsworth - performing songs not only from their debut album, but also
three songs - The Only Thing She Needs, Carrying No Cross and Caesars Palace
Blues - that would later end up on Danger Money. The significance was that
Bruford and Holdsworth departed the group before recording that album and so
aren't on those tracks, but here were live recordings featuring them
performing those songs! Sadly that album went out of print within a couple
weeks of its release and became an instant collectors item. But it so
happens it was recorded in Boston in 1978! My suspicion was that Live in
Boston was this recording. I had my import distributor look into it to get
some more information. They were able to confirm it as being on the
Universal label from Japan with the following track listing:

01. ALASKA 02. TIME TO KILL 03. ONLY THING SHE NEEDS 04. CARRYING NO
CROSS 05. THIRTY YEARS 06. PRESTO VIVACE - IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT 07.
CAESAR'S PALACE BLUES

And wouldn't you know it, that's the precise track listing for UK/Concert
Classics Volume 4. Hopefully this will have a longer life in release than
it's predecessor. As of this writing I have no information on a release
outside of Japan. Anyone interested should definitely pre-order this title.


The other UK inquiries had to do with remasterings of their three albums -
UK, Danger Money, Night After Night - being released in September. I can
confirm that all three of these albums are being remastered. Mark Powell is
involved in this project. Many progressive fans will recognize his name for
his involvement in remasters of the catalogs of Caravan, Camel, Van der
Graaf Generator, Peter Hammill, Steve Hillage, Nektar, Steve Hackett and
many more as well as his involvement in the Eclectic Discs label and now
Esoteric Recordings. These remasters not only have had great sonic quality,
but have often had lots of great bonus tracks and extensive liner notes on
artist histories in the booklets. In general fans of those artists have
praised Mark's work. So his involvement in the UK catalog is welcome news.
However, someone at EMI jumped the gun in spreading word of a September
release. Mark's wife, Vicky, informs me that work is not yet complete, so a
September release would be impossible. My rep at Caroline looked into it
and said a release in 2008 was more likely. So, excellent news on the
remasters, but patience is required on these. It'll certainly be in the
newsletter when a solid date is available.

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